Another Spectrum

Personal ramblings and rants of a somewhat twisted mind

1 Comment

Agreeing to disagree – opinions vs realities — unwrittengrace

As someone who belongs to a distinct minority that has been pathologised as being “broken” more so than accepted as different but equal, the post below speaks very much to my condition (Quakerspeak for “my experience is very similar’). Thank you gracenotes17 for your contribution to this very important topic.

I have often heard people say that it’s important to be able to voice your opinion and disagree with others’ without being accused of hate speech. To an extent, I agree. I think everyone has a right to voice their opinion, and when people are able to do so respectfully, it can be an opportunity […]

Agreeing to disagree – opinions vs realities — unwrittengrace


Is Google a publisher of news?

Google say no. The NZ government seems to think it is.

The background

Late last year, New Zealand was shocked by the murder of a British tourist as this type of killing is unusual here. At the first court appearance of the accused murderer, a temporary name suppression order was made. As Andrew Little, the Minister of Justice stated:

Permanent suppression orders are very difficult to get in New Zealand. But temporary, or interim, suppression orders are commonly used in the early stages of a case to manage the needs of a fair trial. They are used as a practical application of the principle of being presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Even at the time of arrest, or well before the trial takes place, there is a lot for prosecuting and defence counsel to do to prepare, including working out what facts or issues are in dispute. Sometimes the issue of identification of the perpetrator is in question. Keeping the identity of an accused secret until after the trial ensures witnesses don’t get confused between what they saw around the time of the offending and what they’ve seen in the news since.

While NZ newspapers do honour suppression orders – the penalty for contempt of court can be high – foreign publication do not feel the same need need to comply. One British newspaper did publish the accused’s name and this was picked by Google’s news aggregation algorithms and mass emailed to all who subscribe to Google’s Trending in New Zealand newsletter, and included the name of the accused in the headline.

Official complaint

When the breach was discovered, Andrew Little confronted New Zealand Google executives about what happened, and they indicated they took the issue seriously and would look at what they could do to fix the problem. Last week, almost seven months after the complaint was made, Google announced it was not going to do anything about it. That lead to an angry response from the minister.

The Minister’s response

As you might imagine, Google’s response didn’t go down too well with Andrew Little. In part, he stated:

Google’s attitude to fair trial rights in New Zealand should concern us all. It’s time to call out their recklessness.

Frankly, their size, far from meaning they can’t fix an obvious risk to justice systems, means they are big enough to do better. I would be failing in my duty if, as a minister of justice in a small country, I threw in the towel and decided nothing could be done in the face of a giant international corporation thinking it could ride roughshod over one of the most important principles of criminal justice.

Google chooses to operate their business here, to earn revenue here, to publish news and information here. So they have obligations here. The same obligations other news publishers have. And for that matter, other multinational corporations.

I will not accept that Google can avoid their obligations. New Zealanders deserve better.

So I’ve asked for advice on our current suppression laws, the contribution of the Contempt of Court Bill that is currently before parliament, and what more is needed. I also want to know what avenues for legal action there might be.

This will be an issue that will affect other countries, so I want to explore how it is being dealt with overseas.

Meanwhile, one of the issues Google has raised is they don’t know what suppression orders are in force in New Zealand at any time. This doesn’t stop New Zealand based publishers from adhering to the law but I have asked the Ministry of Justice to review how it notifies media about suppression orders as part of its work to implement the new contempt laws.

One thing is clear. I’m not prepared to let Google off the hook, and all options are on the table.

A partial backdown

On Friday, Google offered an apology and has immediately suspended some elements of the subscriber news service Google Trends in New Zealand.

That means that people will no longer receive emails on any trending searches for New Zealand. Isn’t the suspension of the service a bit like cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer?

Throw the book at them

Meanwhile, a tech law specialist, Rick Shera, has stated:

Sabre rattling and wringing of hands by the Minister and, previously, the Privacy Commissioner, is good, but court proceedings should be issued if laws have been broken and Google or any other provider is unwilling to accept responsibility.

In follow-up comments to the NZ Herald, Shera noted a bill going through Parliament would create a $100,000 fine for corporates who break a suppression order (an individual can be fined up to $25,000 or receive a prison sentence up to six months).

“That is clearly de minimis [chump change] for the likes of Google or Facebook,” Shera said. “The bigger issue for them is being found to have broken the law – the reputational effect – and the precedent effect overseas.”

Google vs the little guy

An unrelated court case involving Google has fizzled out. The claimant sought an order restraining Google from including specific search results when a search was made on his name. Google argued two lines of defence:

  1. It was not a publisher. It simply gathered information already published.
  2. New Zealand has no jurisdiction in the matter, and the appropriate place to proceed is in the courts in the USA, the headquarters of Google, and where its technology originates.

I understand the claimant, realised that he didn’t have the resources to take on Google, even if the NZ courts had determined they had jurisdiction, so the case was abandoned.

What should be done?

Ideally, this situation needs to be resolved by international agreements, but unless the USA is willing to come on board, no agreement will be very effective, if at all. We’ve already seen the extra-national arm the American law in cases such as Kim Dot Com whose extradition case is still going through our courts. Dot Com’s alleged criminal activity occurred while he resided here, and he did not commit any crime under NZ law, but that seems to matter little to the USA. Then there’s the case of Meng Wanzhou, the chief financial officer of Huawei, being detained in Canada at the request of the USA. How about Julian Assange and Edward Snowden? Perhaps the US can show that harm has been caused to its interests as justification in all these cases??

If so, has not Google’s actions caused harm to New Zealand? Perhaps the NZ government should seek the extradition of Google’s chief technical officer for allowing Google to cause harm to our judicial system. To make sure a request isn’t laughed out of an American court, perhaps NZ should wait until he visits another nation such as the UK or Australia. Just imagine Trump’s response. I suspect most Americans would be behind Trump in this particular case.

So I’d like to ask the opinion of my readers in three matters:

  1. What constitutes publishing? If I emailed the same headline to friends or collegues as Google did in its “What’s trending in New Zealand” email, or posted that headline on this blog, I have no doubt that I’d be publishing in both cases. In fact, even if I did not mention the accused’s name, but provided a link to the British article that named him, I’d be in contempt of court. Why should Google be treated differently?
  2. How far should organisations go to comply with the laws of the country they operate in? Google has offices and staff here. Should they be able to avoid local laws by claiming it’s the parent body that’s responsible? Would that work in China?
  3. Should free speech be restricted to ensure a fair trial? I know jurors should only consider the evidence presented in court, but it’s human nature to form opinion from many sources including public conjecture, which may affect a juror’s ability to make an impartial decision. If suppression orders continue to be broken, there will be occasions where justice will not be served.

Just to clarify the name suppression order: The accused’s solicitor asked for name suppression, which was opposed by the police. The judge declined to grant name suppression, but the solicitor immediately filed an appeal. The appeal set in place an automatic 20-day interim suppression order so that both parties can prepare their arguments for or against the decision.


The right to speak versus the right to survive

Some of my readers are insistent that the right to free speech is absolute – that there must be no limits imposed by governments on what we, the public are allowed to say. But do those readers believe that absolutely? They might say any limit to free speech, even if it’s hate speech, is a start of a slippery slope to oppression and the curtailing of most or all freedoms. Yet if I point out that absolute freedom of speech would give me the freedom to yell “Fire!” in the confined space of a theatre or nightclub, or to encourage others to exclude or eliminate a minority from society, some will acknowledge that absolute freedom of speech would indeed be harmful.

Speech itself can be oppressive, perhaps not to alpha males who happen to be of the same ethnic/cultural background as the dominant ethnicity/culture in their society, but to almost everyone else, language is used, either consciously or unconsciously, to oppress minorities and those without power. If male, less so than female. If abled, less so than disabled. If a dominant ethnicity, less so than a less influential ethnicity. The same applies to skin colour, religion, neurodiversity – in fact just about any aspect of being human can, through the use of language, be used to oppress others who express that aspect differently.

Evelyn Hall paraphrases Voltaire’s ideology as “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” But what happens when what is said is rooted in the oppression and denial of the humanity and right to exist of another human being? At what point does the right to survive trump the right to speak?

In Canary in a Coal Mine: How Tech Provides Platforms for Hate, an article on A list Apart, Tatiana Mac discusses the responsibility of technology providers to perhaps practice “We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist”. She is critical of the hypocrisy of some social media platforms for banning support for ISIS ideologies while permitting other ideologies, such as a belief in a necessity to fight back against a (non-existent) white genocide conspiracy.

While Tatiana’s article is specifically related to how the tech industry should respond to the conflict of the right to speak versus the right to survive, should that be where final authority should rest? What role should the state take in this very issue? In fact should legislation and the courts be the final arbiter on this dilemma, or is it better left in the hands of competing private enterprise tech platforms?


In the wake of Israel Folau’s homophobic comments on social media, and his possible sacking, I cannot place all the blame on his shoulders. He grew up withing a religiously conservative Pacific island community, where the views he holds is the norm. The question should be how should we respond to the dissemination such beliefs? Here is Bill Peddie’s take on the question.

IZZY’S LITTLE LIST A few days ago a congregation member of a local Pentecostal-type mega church told me that their whole congregation had recently prayed for my salvation. Their leaders had discovered that I had a liberal approach to the Bible and they were understandably concerned I might be leading others in the town down […]

via Izzy’s Little List — Bill Peddie’s website


Over the last month I have been attempting to coalesce some rather vague notions revolving around community, individuality, inclusion, diversity, language, and power. I have had four partly written posts that I just have not been able to complete. Then I happened across the post linked to below, and I though why re-invent the wheel, when there’s a perfectly good one is staring me straight in the face (apologies for the mixed metaphor).

Who has power, and how do they wield it in their words and actions, especially in a crisis?

via The power of the megaphone, the call to prayer — Jdanspsa Wyksui